Ultimate Axiom

Joined

• started 18 topics
• posted 490 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Ultimate Axiom

• 
  34

  Can you list watchtower articles that claim anything from the 'faithful slave' should be taken as from jehovah himself?

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  just a few wts that put to the effect anything from them should be taken as from jehovah himself and also with elders or being disfellowshipped, that it means jehovah himself is angry with them, that's it's punishment from him.

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  I know this is somewhat off-topic to the original thread, but I have read a little more about this “prediction” that the "faithful and discreet slave" supposedly gave as they were “guided by Jehovah's unerring spirit”.

  I found the text of the speech that Knorr gave on September 20th 1942 in a booklet called, “Peace – Can it last?”, (although the booklet calls it the New World Theocratic Assembly rather than United Theocratic Announcers Assembly, but I’m assuming it’s the same one as the dates match) – you can get a copy from here;

  http://ia600304.us.archive.org/27/items/WatchtowerLibrary/booklets/1942_pcl_E.pdf

  Nowhere in this speech does Knorr predict the outcome claimed. He does in fact refer to a number of possible outcomes to the war, including the setting up of a World Government, a sort of USW, on pages 11-12 he says, “Those of a democratic mind hope for a United States of the world, a "family of nations", a "world association" based on the United Nations, including a "world legion". Says one spokesman: "An international constitution and government will be a postwar necessity."”.

  He goes on to quote the prediction of a US cabinet member who, as far as we know, made his prediction without the guidance of Jehovah’s unerring spirit - “One of the president's own cabinet members says: "A world organization, with the United Nations as its base, will determine the peace, and the postwar world will be policed by the allied powers."” (page 12). And what is more, Knorr does not even endorse this prediction any more than he does any of the others.

  So in actual fact, the "faithful and discreet slave" did not make it known that the democracies would win World War II and set up the UN, it was the other way round, the democracies made this known to the faithful and discreet slave! This arrogation of someone else’s prediction is extraordinary, even by Watchtower standards, especially when you consider that the 1960 Watchtower was written by the very same people (Knorr and Franz) who wrote that 1942 speech.
• 
  60

  What attracted you to the Watchtower?

  by Christ Alone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what attracted you to the watchtower?

  were you raised in it?

  if not, what caused you to convert?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  Unlike many who have responded to your question so far CA, I was not born into it. I am one of those who heard the message, liked what I heard, and swallowed it hook, line and sinker. So I would like to put our side of the story, especially as I began by raising my two children “in it”, although I am eternally grateful that after I left, they both followed suit - I might inject here that their mother, my eldest sister, and the guy I studied with (who was born in) are all still loyal dubs to this day.

  It was 1969 and I was 16 at the time. I didn't realise I was naïve and gullible, like most teenagers I thought I knew everything, at least I thought I knew a lot more than my father did. And no, I did not research the beliefs and history thoroughly. I asked questions, got satisfactory answers - I simply didn’t believe that people would lie to me so sincerely. And I don’t think even now, that they thought they were lying – victims of victims as they say.

  I considered myself to be an atheist at the time, and when my eldest sister had begun to study, I just humoured her. But following a séance with my other sisters and a friend, my atheism was turned upside down – I had no explanation for what happened during that séance, but the explanation given by the witnesses seemed to make sense. So I started studying too.

  I was drawn to the paradise earth (particularly as it was only a few years away), the international brotherhood of man, the lack of class distinctions, the principled stand against war, no money was asked or expected, the explanation for the existence of evil, the fact that evil would end, the fact that they seemed to have an answer for everything – and yes, the fact that they were good, generous, honest, friendly and loving people. And yes, most of those I knew then, I still regard as good, genuine people. I can honestly say that I have only met one really nasty piece of work within the witness community; the fact that he married my eldest sister was a real tragedy for her, but more so for her daughter (his step daughter).

  Within a year of studying I had quit school, got baptised and was a regular pioneer with dreams of Bethel, Gilead and missionary work before me - all to the great disappointment of my father. But I was prepared to fight and defend “the truth” with all my heart – my only sorrow at the time was that I would not be old enough to be an elder before Armageddon. I didn't believe it was the truth, I knew it!

  Ten years later and I was far from knowing anything - the shelf on which I had put so many unanswered and unanswerable questions had collapsed. I had begun to research some things and so much no longer made sense.

  I walked away in 1978 with most of me still believing it was the truth, still believing that Armageddon was just around the corner and would soon end my life (it was a long and painful exit). I attended the odd meeting for the next year or so, the last being the district assembly in Twickenham, London, in 1980.

  Looking back it is easy to say that I should have been more objective, more critical, more cynical and researched it. After all, if you are going to turn your life over to it, at least research it first. And I agree; I stand guilty as charged. I have no explanation for why I was so gullible, perhaps that is why I am the complete opposite now, a complete cynic. I can understand why those “born in” find it difficult to understand how people like me can be taken in by it, but unless you experience that feeling of knowing that this is the truth, you probably never will.
• 
  295

  Survey: Who here is an atheist? Who here still believes in God?

  by Christ Alone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just wanted to take a survey.

  let's not let this get into the same old same old debate of atheism vs belief.

  just respond with "atheist" or "believer" or "maybe god exists".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  Elderelite, I did read it and should have realised - my apologies. I agree, this subject is no joke, may the force be with you.
• 
  295

  Survey: Who here is an atheist? Who here still believes in God?

  by Christ Alone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just wanted to take a survey.

  let's not let this get into the same old same old debate of atheism vs belief.

  just respond with "atheist" or "believer" or "maybe god exists".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  elderelite, to some of us belief in god is a joke - it's the only way to cope with his refusal to reveal himself in a clear and undeniable manner.
• 
  40

  January 2013 Watchtower - HAVE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES GIVEN INCORRECT DATES FOR THE END?

  by TheStumbler in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was just on the new jw.org site and i have to say, they've done a good job.

  it looks pretty sleek and is easy to navigate.

  the production values of their magazines (in particular the photos) seems to have improved since i last spent much time on the site.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  I love the way the mistakes are always made by "Jehovah's Witnesses" or "Jehovah's people", I have never yet seen the Watchtower itself admit, "brothers, we made the mistake!".
• 
  295

  Survey: Who here is an atheist? Who here still believes in God?

  by Christ Alone in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just wanted to take a survey.

  let's not let this get into the same old same old debate of atheism vs belief.

  just respond with "atheist" or "believer" or "maybe god exists".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  For all practical and intellectual purposes an atheist – but I would dearly love to be proved wrong (but not for the reasons you might think).
• 
  25

  Are The Governing Body Being Set Up To Take A Fall?

  by DT in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  the governing body's decision to declare themselves the faithful and discreet slave appears pretty arrogant and presumptuous.

  since most of us regard the governing body as arrogant and presumptuous, it's easy to conclude that is the reason that they did this.. what if something else is going on?.

  remember when steven unthank was able to get the faithful and discreet slave charged in australia for failing to comply with the working with children act?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  Oh if only ....
• 
  50

  You Know You Are In The Wrong Religion When:

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  here is a list i've started...but hope will be added to.. .

  you know you are in the wrong religion when:.

  1. the all important question is not: "do you believe in the lord jesus christ?"....but....

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  When you have to surrender your conscience to another man.

  When you are not allowed to think for yourself.

  When you tell everyone else they must question their religion, but you are forbiden to question your own.

  When you ar in any religion at all!
• 
  28

  A wife's submission

  by Mark_C in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm relatively new to the faith, and struggle with many concepts and teachings.

  i am getting married soon.

  part of the teaching i've experienced is that a wife must learn submission to her husband.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  “you can make some of the N.T appear to support all sorts of things too if you want”

  Quite agree, and I also agree there is a big difference between the way women are viewed in the NT over the OT. But the NT is still rooted in the OT, and if MarK_C is contemplating a life devoted to Jehovah, then he (and his fiancée) need to understand how Jehovah views women, and Lev 12 is as good a quote as any (for Jehovah doesn’t change). The womanly submission thing is carried forward into Christianity, “let women keep silent in the congregations, for it is not permitted for them to speak, but let them be in subjection, even as the Law says. If, then, they want to learn something, let them question their own husbands at home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in a congregation.” (1 Cor 14:34-35). And a little earlier is the oft quoted verse used by the WT that “the head of a woman is the man”, and if you want more, see 1 Tim 2 11-12 (I do not permit women to ... exercise authority over a man). The NT may not sanction misogyny, but women are still second class citizens in it, at least while they are on earth.
• 
  233

  THE GOOD NEWS WILL BE POSTED LATER TODAY!!!!!

  by EndofMysteries in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a video will be posted later today where all the mysteries of god, the disgusting thing causing desolation, all the contradictions in the bible, why god in the old testament seemed so cruel, why was satan created if god is good, how is god love?

  all of the prophecies jesus had foretold which were hidden and lost yet being fullfilled the entire time.

  this is the good news that will then spread worldwide, and then the end will come.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  Congratulations again EoM - you have made a second double-digit page thread about nonsense in less than a week. Is that some kind of a record?